Friday, February 25, 2011

Creationists - coming to a town near you soon - in Scotland

Nothing to do with CMI
Its not often we get creationist events in Scotland these days, but I notice that Creation Ministries International have organised a speaking tour by Philip Bell, a former school science teacher. You can see the details here.

None of them are anywhere near where I live and I am working several evenings that week or I would have gone along for a listen (ok, ok, more likely a silent protest with a placard along the lines of "people are dying and you are talking about people riding on dinosaurs").


  1. "People are dying, and you are writing a blog post about people talking about riding on dinosaurs"


  2. A fair point, but I have never claimed that the churches mission is to write blogs, whereas creationists believe the churches mission is, at least in part, to persuade people that the earth is 6500 years old and civilisation about 4500 years old.

  3. Hello Gordon

    The mission of the true Church of our LORD and SAVIOUR JESUS CHRIST is to teach that the creation account in the first book of Moses, which in the Hebrew tongue is called Bereishit (GENESIS)can be relied upon as a true and literal historical creation account.The name Genesis is a Greek word which effectively means 'In the beginning'. In the book of Genesis we read in their respected places; 'these are the generations of Adam' or the generations of Noah'. The word 'generation' is derived from genesis. It is through the chronological accounts described here that we can work out the age of mankind since the sixth day of creation in Genesis 1.26-31.
    If the book of Genesis did not exist the rest of holy writ would make absolutely no sense to me at all.
    The reason we have such a weak and liberal unbelieving Church today is because people have lost faith in the book of Genesis because of the satanic and false teaching of Darwinism/evolution.
    The gospel of JESUS CHRIST our LORD begins in Genesis 1.1. He IS the creator.

    Repent and believe the gospel.

    Now is the day of salvation.


  4. Hello Colin

    I don't/can't believe that Genesis is literally true. Its not a choice I have made, I just don't believe that to be true and its why I am not a Christian.

  5. I'm curious - how do you define "literally true"?

  6. Hello Berenike,

    It means in my humble opinion taking God's Word as it is said. If you should ever be in the unfortunate position of being in front of a judge in court and he said 'guilty as charged' would you not take that as said?
    The problem today is that a lot of churches are full of liberal pastors and teachers that don't believe in the virgin birth,death and ressurection of our LORD and SAVIOUR JESUS CHRIST, so they allegorize,spiritualise and debunk the creation account in the book of Genesis to fit in with their evolutionary mindset.

  7. I find that people who demand that Genesis be taken as literal truth also demand that Revelation has to be symbolic in order that they can interpret it to suit their eschatology.

    Presumably you don't believe Jesus when he said "this is my body"?

    You can't have your cake and eat it. The bible is either literally true or it isn't.

  8. Colin, you're back.

    Before you comment further I would still like you to address some of the issues raised in an earlier thread:

    I've encountered several YEC's now who never seem willing to face the contradictions within their own world view, and yet are so willing to espouse it to others. They claim humility and yet practically burst with energy when it comes to telling somebody they're going to burn in hell (which, in Jesus' day the notion of hell came from the valley of Hinnom, or Gehenna--so is hell now figurative or literal?).

    Clear up the contradictions for me, and then logically explain to me why every piece, and I mean EVERY piece of God given data (since I grant credit to God for giving us the intellectual curiousity and means to make discoveries about the world in which He created) suggests that the world is old and that we evolved.

    Who is the deceiver here, is it God for making a young earth but presenting everything about it in such a way so that it looks old, or is it the human young earth creationist who claims some authority and then distorts or tells blatant lies about the data to make the gullible believe that the world conforms to a literal 6 day creation (and can make a tidy sum of money doing so)? I know who the deceiver is, and to give you a clue it isn't the one making a profit.

    You have lofty challenges to legitimize your world view to the average person of average intelligence before they can accept it, and if you come back quoting the Bible you have failed to realize the significance of the challenge.

  9. Hello Gordon,

    I posted quite a long reply and I pressed the 'post comment' button twice and the page went blank!!
    This has happened before.

    I will try to get back tommorrow



  10. Hello Gordon,

    I am sure that we both agree that the book of Genesis (if you believe it) is history and the Revelation is yet future. Having said that there are parts of Genesis that are prophetic and haven't yet come to pass. Also there are small parts of the Revelation that are historical.
    You have to remember that God is the 'High and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity'; Isaiah 57.15. He is outside of time. Time is temporary, 'A thousand years is as one day'; 2 Peter 3.8. He is quoting from Psalm 90.4. On this basis the LORD's crucifixion happened two days ago. This gives a different understanding to His warning in Revelation 22.20; 'Surely I come quickly'. Effectively the Revelation HAS already happened; John the seer witnessed it and used language that might perplex us,but as ever scripture interprets scripture. The 'symbolism' that you refer to in the Revelation is recorded in Isaiah,Jeremiah,Ezekiel,Daniel and the 'minor' prophets.
    Considerable wisdom is required when studying holy writ (I pray daily for more). Not a few have gone before that have shaken the faith of many because of their doctrines,and indeed I am disturbed by much of what I see on 'GOD TV'. But the Word tells us that there would be many false teachers in the last days.
    Daniel 12.10 tells us; 'Only the wise will understand'. Not that I am a clever man,I left school with three abysmal 'O' levels ( C,D and an E). I couldn't believe what I believe without the Holy Spirit revealing it to me.
    Gordon there are many,many places in scripture where you have to use discernment,take for example Psalm 91.4; 'He shall cover thee with His feathers,and under His wings shalt thou trust'. Do I think that GOD is a bird? NO! This is clearly an allegory. When the LORD JESUS CHRIST said in the gospels; 'Take eat,this is my body', He said do this in REMEMBRANCE of Me' (emphasis mine). When I eat the bread,I eat it in remembrance of His ONCE and only atoning sacrifice for our sins. Ofcourse the Roman Church believe in transubstantiation; that the 'priest' has some mystical power to convert the bread into His literal body. The martyrs at the time of the reformation were burnt at the stake for refusing to give in to this and other lies.
    When you say 'The bible is literally true or it isn't' you must be careful to use discernment. Undeniably there are verses and parables that are hard to understand, but as ever scripture interprets scripture. Also it is often neccessary to look into the Hebrew and Greek.
    I will readily accept that we must be careful when applying the 'literal' word . God gave us understanding,forget not that we are made in His image. Today we have many words in the English language that have lost their 'literal' meaning in the short time I have been on the planet,take 'gay' and 'wicked' for example. If I had an old dictionary I would not be able to define these words,such is the way popular culture has eroded the boundaries. The Word of God never changes (unless you have a bad modern translation).
    I take GOD at His Word and am happy to be called a creationist if only because I believe the Creator created the heavens and the earth. I believe that He created the heavens and the earth in six literal 24 hour days; Exodus 20.11.


  11. Hello jj,

    I will look on that link and reply sometime in the very near future when I have time.

    Gordon,regarding the age of the earth would you when you have time look up 'Pinks Archive' and click onto 'Gleanings in Genesis' and read his exegesis on the creation account regarding the actual age of the 'ORIGINAL' creation.



  12. Hi Colin,

    I do appreciate your taking the time to reply. I do want to point out that I feel you are using 2nd Peter in an inconsistent manner (there are other issues, but I'll focus on this one). In the same way you suggest that 3:8 gives a different understanding to Revelation, I would suggest it also gives a very different (and far more logically supportable) understanding of the 6 day creation.

    This is a consistent problem I see with fundamentalist interpretations (keep in mind I used to be one) of Biblical teachings, in that one picks and chooses what one wants to apply a particular teaching to inconsistently in order to support a literal/inerrant Biblical teaching.

    If you're not willing to grant me that God's creative power could be done on God's time scale in 6 days according to Peter's understanding of God's time, then I am not willing to grant you your application of time to Revelation, etc., because then it is logically inconsistent. On the other hand, if you grant me that by the statement in 3:8 that God's creation could in fact be interpreted as "long earth" creation rather than a literal 6 days, I'm more willing to grant you your application of this understanding of time.

    That said, if you grant me a long earth, and then start poking around with the actual scientific data, I am quite confident that people who are willing to critically examine their own beliefs alongside the scientific data will find the massive set of evolutionary data compelling and irrefutable.