Monday, February 18, 2008

I rest my case

I was contacted by someone who had read one of my articles who said that if I had truly received the holy spirit I could not have ever stopped believing, to which I replied that Christian's normal response to my story is one of these three:

  1. You were never a proper christian (which is what he was effectively saying).
  2. If you had experienced God like I have experienced God you would believe.
  3. Just believe and let God do the rest (i.e. lie).

Then he replied with this bizzare statement:

Well let me tell you what i do,lets leave tongue aside a minuate.
i have the holy spirit i receive it in the top of a overflow room
in birmingham alabama god himself moved on me.
and the first thing he did was take over my i had no control over it i couldent control it nor can anyone that god is really controling.but you do have the prayer language even there god is putten the words there for you to say into your spirit.
are he can override the words are speak them himself.
i have gift 7 of the nine gifts of the spirit i know a young lady
she has 16 demon spirits on her,i know their names,i also know when their controling her the very time one is head over her he tells
the others what to do to her.god informs me everthing their doing on her.
satan is very good at deceiving lying to people pasters are no exception.he can fool them the most,
also pasters say if you have the holy spirit satan are demons cant get into you body and do what they will ,thats a ball face lie
told by satan to pasters,
The reason i know thats a lie,i had 8 move into my body into the
center of my head,cussing up a storm,then guess what they latched onto my tongue and started cussing using my tongue the same tongue
the holy spirit controls.
and guess what i was doing when this happen.
i was on a christian web server in another country,there was a young teen age er there she was on a christian web server saying this,i hate everbody,i hate christians,i hate my parents,i hate my
life and i dont wont to go on living,then she said this CAN ANYBODY
This young lady had 8 demons on her trying to get her to kill herself.
but a real deal was resten on this web server,a person that knows
his god.
Oh guess what i sent after those 8 demon spirits ,ANGELS,LOL
They are used to get people into a relationship with gods son,
a big boy i sent he was 12 foot tall,lol
I have power over demon spirits,but BOTTOM LINE,
They lie,deceive,destroy,and kill people even christian,
I agree you are being deceive,by guess who satan,
Why is that so hard to figer out,He is a lyer and the father of them.
Who is controling your thinking,is all your thoughtas yours,
no, demons can and do control christian,the question is have
you found it out yet,BOTTOM LINE I HAVE.
Satan is laughting because we humband beings are so stubid,
I know this god who you said you know a while back.
I will do one thing for you that i can do ,
Mighty god Jehovah in jesus name send as many of your angels
to this man as he needs to break down what satan is doing to him.
Yes even let him see the angels so that even he will then know
what a sucker satan has made out of him.
Trying to make him believe your not real.and he is no longer
a paster.
speaking the truth in love for my fellow believer.
my sisterin law is being destroted by demons,my brother, god
told me satan is trying to destroy,he is a di-bedic.
my brother will not come up to my house and if he has to
when he leaves he runs like a bat out of hell, get away from me.
god has gift 7 running all the time on me i know who satan has
demons on,PS i can see
I even know a little how he works that gift ,there is two balls
of white light behind my eyes it loks like the white light coming
off the angels i have seen yes i can see angels gift 7 baby.
my my can somebody praise god,praise god for truth,praise god for
power,praise god his son defeated death hell and the grave.
Ha guess what i am no paster ,i dont even go to any church weather it be christian are not but i know my god.
We had a christian women a while back that killed her husband.
she was on the news,she escaped to alabama with her three kids.
but they found her,
arrested her sent her down to a syco well lets see she was tempority insain,lol such non science,she had demons spirits
on her and her husband dident even know it,they said he said to
her before he died WHY DID YOU DO THIS my my killing the one you
love, he like you are deceive,demons are what is causing people
to dought what they are,why because satan wonts total control
of all people,But ps he dont control this man i am 66 going on
67 march 9 i am a viet nom vet i know how to make war in the
natural as well as the hidden spirit world of which satan controls. and i have back up to help me,angels the same back up
that could have gotton sweet jesus off the cross before he died.
forgive any arrors in this writing,i do get carried away some time,and mis spell words,but the truth is there and thats what matters.god bless you today and foreveer as we both move on into truth that god has for us.

I will let that speak for itself.


  1. I find some of your arguments in previous posts about the non existence of God stimulating and thought provoking. However your point in this post where you 'rest your case' is intellectually weak and dare I say, illogical. Yours is a similar point made by R Dawkins and has the same weakness. Citing and criticisng extreme examples of christian believers (or any other kind) and then concluding that this disproves what any other person might believe is illogical. Crazy people can be found everywhere.
    If this argument is accepted then because there exist a few disturbed rambling athiests the view of all athiests are invalid.
    I find it very frustrating when someone like yourself (or a thinker such as Dawkins) practice such reductionism.
    By the way i am a Christian, a THINKING one, they do exist!

  2. Yes, I think you are probably right, but I don't seem to here any coherent arguments in favour of the existence of God. It tends to boil down to "if you had exeperienced God like I have experienced God...." which is ultimately what this guy was saying, and thats all down to interpretation.

    I am reminded of an office I used to work in where a radio used to regularly fall off the window ledge because the wood had got warped and it would gradually slip down the way. That was my interpretation, but our cleaner (an ardent Christian) was convinced it was demonic forces at work and quit her job.

  3. There you go again with your crazy christian cleaner story. I have met a lot of christians and they are no more likely than those who don't believe in God to have superstitions or sometimes irrational fears. What about throwing salt over the shoulder, lucky numbers, touch wood etc. This behaviour niether proves or disproves anything.

    I believe they do indicate a niggling doubt that more than logic and scientific fact exist in our experience. In answer to your other comment, if you are looking for facts that are not open to interpretation then you are not talking scientific facts. Look at any scientific journal and the disagreements that exist over what facts actually mean or indicate. We all interpret.Its always personal

    Personally my belief in Gods existence and my faith is based on my opinion that this answers more of my questions than Gods non existence. Questions such as why do we appreciate beauty? why do we experience love? why do some things seem good and others evil? the urge to create? and others. The concept of humans in some way made in an image of a spiritual entity with characteristics helps with the answers. This and, I hesitate to add, my (open to interpretation) experience of faith. Which of course is no less valid than your experience of non faith.

    It has always seemed to me that one of the problems with athiesm is that it spends so long disproving other answers but doesn't attempt any answers to these kind of big questions.
    Hopefully this rather short explanation will pass your 'coherency' test.

  4. Yes, I think the problem here is that I accept that it is possible to successfully argue for the Christian gospel and be persuaded that it is true or likely. However, thats not the same as actually believing it to be true. I could easily accept it as being true and live by it but to me this would leave me with no personal integrity. I don't believe in God. I am not sure why but I don't and it would be wrong of me to lie and just say I did.

    This is what caused me to leave the church and why I am not a minister even though its the only thing I am qualified to do! (even though I know several people who don't believe in God who are ministers)

  5. Finally some intellectual honesty from an athiest. I think you are now saying that you have heard coherent arguments for Gods existence BUT do not agree with them. This is an honest and very valid position. This is also, I believe, the actaul postion of R Dawkins (who you link to on your page) although he would never have the courage to admit it. When having a quick look at the RDF site I was struck by the similarity to many christian mission websites. You have been in the church so will also be able to identify all of the following in his organisation. Prophets of old, preachers today, scriptures, doctrine(updated for today), priority mission fields, identified threats('the enlightenment is under threat'), elders, easy tax efficient payment methods, them and us approach.

    Does athiesm answer any of the questions I raised? I was slightly dissastified by your deconversion story that you have realised your purpose is to "pass on your genes", And you were satisfied by that?surely not. By the way it seemed very similar to many chrsitian conversion stories, the experiences are almost exactly the same. relief, freedom, congratulations from others. Did you feel you were joining something as well as leaving something?

  6. Actually, I think the purpose of my life is mopre than passing on genes. It is about contributing to all the things that will come after me by increasing knowledge and skills. For example, I actually own a small part of the internet (one of the ASN's) and thorugh my work I have contributed to the development of human communication. Thats just one example.

    No, I do not feel I have joined anythiing, but I do feel happier and more able to enjoy life without believing in God.

    I did used to believe but once I realised I didn't any more there was no point trying to claim otherwise.

    I was always a thinking Christian anyway (i read divinity at Edinburgh), but this for me is not an intellectual game. I just don't see any way of logically proving the existence of God to the point where real faith or belief would occur.

    I think its possible to argue someone into believing that the Christian gospel is correct and get them to make a decision but thats not the same thing as themn truly believing in God with the same certainty as belief in observable truths.