Saturday, September 30, 2006

How many people will die at the battle of Armageddon?

According to Revelation 14:19-20:

"The angel swung his sickle on the earth, gathered its grapes and threw them into the great winepress of God's wrath. They were trampled in the winepress outside the city, and blood flowed out of the press, rising as high as the horses' bridles for a distance of 1,600 stadia."

Perhaps we can use some maths to work out how many people would need to die to produce that amount of blood? My initial thoughts were millions but the maths proves otherwise.

Assumptions:
Assuming that 1600 stadia is the diameter of the circle of affected ground (we don't get any idea of length from the text).
Assuming a horses bridle is 4 feet from the ground.

4 feet = 1.22m
1,600 stadia = 300km = 300,000m

We can then calculate the volume of blood using the formula:
V = lPIr2
V = 86,271 cubic metres or 86,271 litres of blood

Average amount of blood in a human body = 5.6 litres

By dividing the two we can work out how many dead bodies would be needed to produce that amount of bloood:

86271/5.6 = 15,405 bodies.

This does not take account of the displacement of bodies in the blood which could reduce the amount of dead by 75% or more, or the possibility that half the blood might be retained in the body, which could double the number of dead required to produce that amount of blood.

Therefore we have a minimum number of dead of only 3,851 (fully drained with displacement of bodies in the blood) or a maximum of 30,810 (half drained of blodd with no bodies to displace the volume to a height of four feet).

Either way both are not impossible and its not millions.

(80,000 people were killed immediately by the nuclear bombing of Hiroshima so even 30,810 dead in one battle is not unprecedented.)

15 comments:

  1. I think your math is way off.

    The volume of blood for an area 1600 stadia in diameter and 1.22 meters deep would be 335,809,330,317 cubic meters (296,000 x 296,000 x Pi). One cubic meter contains 1000 liters. So that would produce a total volume of 335,809,330,316,800 liters. You would need 60 trillion people to get that much human blood.

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  2. Yes, I think you are right. I may have a decimal point in the wrong place. I will give this some more thought. Thanks for your input.

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  3. Hold on - your math and your facts don't line up. So, from the beginning.

    "diameter of the circle" - you can't use this method since the text states that it "flows" some even say "like a stream."

    You must calculate and include the following information:
    - Battle area - Valley of Jehoshaphat (600 feet wide at top / 20 miles long). The Kedron Brook flows through the valley and is on average 3 feet wide (we will round up and say 5 feet)
    - Average height of a horse 14.2 hands (or 4 feet 10 inches - we will round up to 5 feet)
    - Flowing blood 180 miles or 950,400 feet.
    - Amount of blood in human body 6 quarts or 1.5 gallons.

    Answer #1 = Minimum width using Kedron Brook.
    length (flowing blood) 950,400 feet
    x
    depth (horses bridle) 5 feet
    x
    width (Kedron Brook) 5 feet
    x
    7.48 (Convert cubic foot to gallons)
    /
    1.5 (Gallons in human body)
    =
    Death toll of 118,483,200

    Answer #2 = Let's solve this another way. Right now there are approximately 7 billion people on earth. Let's say 1 billion are
    raptured.
    That leaves 6 billion.
    25% (1.5 billion) will die in famine and disease.
    This leaves 5.5 billion.
    1/3 (1.8 billion)will die during trumpet #6.
    This leaves roughly 2.7 billion people on earth. Let's say 2 million die during the other periods of judgement just to give us a round 2.5 billion people left on earth. All who will fight and die in the battle of Armageddon. That means...

    2.5 billion people
    x
    1.5 gallons of blood
    /
    7.48 (Convert gallons to cubic feet)
    /
    depth (horses bridle) 5 feet
    /
    length (flowing blood) 950,400 feet
    =
    Width of flowing blood stream
    106 feet / 35 yards / .020 miles

    Both are totally plausible, and realistic. Whether or not the number is correct - the event will happen.

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  4. this is the trouble with interpreting apocalyptic writing literally. it's supposed to be symbolic. what is the significance of 1,600? where has that number been used before in the bible? what is the context of the immediate passage, the chapter, the book, the other writings from this author, the rest of the bible. let the bible interpret the bible. not the newspaper.

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  5. A FALSE PREMISE CAN CAUSE A FALSE CONCLUSION.....
    The Blood to the Horses Bridle in Revelation is simple.... FACT: Dead bodies were stacked so High in the Streets of Jerusalem at the Destruction of the Temple in AD70, that Horses could not pass through the streets. This is the "blood to Horses bridle" fulfillment. It DOES NOT say that it FLOWED but that it REACHED the horses bridle. AD70 was the Fullfillment of this Revelation prophecy. Sorry, IT WILL NOT HAPPEN either way related to the "math problems given"- IT HAS ALREADY HAPPENED "Specifically" based on the Prophecy & the history that verified it. NO MATH is needed to crack this "PROBLEM", just simple historical deduction.
    The Bible's revealed point was & is simply "The Blood of all the Saints and Prophets was upon the Shoulders of that AD 30- AD 70 Generation- Just as Jesus had said earlier". NOTE: a Generation is 40 years and AD 70 fits when He spoke it and when it actually physically happened. REVELATION is full-filled ladies & gentlemen- this is only 1 Proof of many I could provide! THIS FALSE PREMISE DOES NOT NEED ARGUED ANYMORE......

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  6. It's not a false premise, D.R. Joel, but your analogy was very helpful. There are TWO legs to the Rapture prophecy. Preterists don't understand Daniel 9 is based on God's Accounting for Time (precedented in Adam, not Israel) which resulted in TWO SEVENS owed Israel, one of which played from 64-70AD, but the other of which is yet future. For Christ died 7 years in advance of his scheduled demise of 37AD.

    Still, I was trying to assess which way the verse should be interpreted, and you were a great help. THANK YOU.

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  7. at least atheists use their intelligence for useful purposes...

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  8. if one does not believe that this can actually be fulfilled with the horror of future weapons and ballistics currently being developed.. . read about "metal storm" ballistics technology. . . . .at least 1 MILLION rounds per minute is now within the realm of possibility.

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  9. Regardless of the math and the numbers and all of the calculations, when the rapture happens and God returns and millions of people instantly vanish, who will be be able to doubt Gods power? Blood to the horses bridal or blood as high as the mountains ,If God says it will happen it most certainly will. Calculate that

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  10. KJV+ Strong’s in E-Sword, literally shows 1600 Stadia

    The NASB translates 200 miles, but the Lexicon literally states that there are 1600 stadia in Revelation 14:20

    Revelation 14:20And the winepress was trodden outside the city, and blood flowed from the winepress, as high as a horses’ bridles, for 1,600 stadia.

    Horse's Bridles, about 4' feet

    For 1600 stadia

    1 Athenian / Greek Stadia = 607' feet

    1600 x 607' = 971,200' feet


    Note: There are 5,280' feet in 1 mile

    971,200' / 5280'= that’s 183.93 miles


    A reference to the depth of the overflowing blood is given. Revelation 14:20; the blood is up to the horses’ bridles [a picture of war and the battle] see Job 39:19-25
    A length of 1600 stadia [971,200'] is also given.

    How wide could this flood be?

    1' x 1' x 1' = volume in cubic feet, there are 27 cu. feet per cubic yard. There are 201.97 gallons in 1 cubic yard. The average adult has about 5 quarts of blood in their body. Between the young and the old in this winepress, maybe there is an average of 1 gallon per body. Today there is a reported 7 Billion people in the world.


    Per 1 Billion people:

    1,000,000,000 people / gallons of blood

    1,000,000,000 / 201.97 = 4,951,230 cubic yards

    4,951,230 cu. yds x 27 = number in cubic feet:

    133683210 cu feet

    133,683,210 cu feet divided by 971,200' [length] = 137.647' square

    137.647' square feet / 4' [horse's bridles]= 34.4' across


    How many people will be crushed under the LORD's Feet in that winepress? The bible says a cavalry of 200 million go out to kill 1/3 of mankind. Is this the amount of people in the great winepress?

    15And the four angels, who had been prepared for the hour and day and month and year, were released, so that they would kill a third of mankind. 16The number of the armies of the horsemen was two hundred million; I heard the number of them.

    GOD’s WORD! :) Revelation 9


    1 Billion people at 1 gallon of blood per person, at 4' high, for 971,200' feet long, would make a river of blood stretch across for 34.4'.




    If this battle is the winepress of Revelation 14:20, and if 1/3 of mankind will be slaughtered in this battle, and the world's population then was around 7 Billion, ... then maybe overflowing blood would be around 79.12' feet across.

    1/3 of 7 billion is 2,333,333,333

    If…

    1 Billion people crushed like grapes of wrath, at about 1 gallon each would flood an area 971,200’ long, 4' deep, for 34.4' feet across…

    Then 2.3 billion would flood an entire area 971,200’ long, 4’ deep, for around 79' feet across. Wow

    And how much blood is still in the winepress?

    Thank You JESUS for saving a wretch like me.



    Romans 5:

    8But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 9Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him. 10For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. 11And not only this, but we also exult in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.
    JOHN 10

    11“I AM the Good Shepherd; the Good Shepherd lays down HIS LIFE for the sheep
    27“My sheep hear MY Voice, and I know them, and they follow ME; 28and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of MY HAND. 29“MY FATHER, who has given them to ME, is Greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the FATHER’s HAND. 30“I and the FATHER are ONE.”

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  11. New International Version (©1984)
    The sayings of Agur son of Jakeh--an oracle: This man declared to Ithiel, to Ithiel and to Ucal:

    English Standard Version (©2001)
    The words of Agur son of Jakeh. The oracle. The man declares, I am weary, O God; I am weary, O God, and worn out.
    New American Standard Bible (©1995)
    The words of Agur the son of Jakeh, the oracle. The man declares to Ithiel, to Ithiel and Ucal:

    King James Bible
    The words of Agur the son of Jakeh, even the prophecy: the man spake unto Ithiel, even unto Ithiel and Ucal,

    Ithiel means 'God is with me,' and Ucal comes from a word, akal, which means 'to eat.' Perhaps the prophet is not talking to two other people, but saying a phrase, 'Ithiel...Ithiel and Ucal;' "God is with me, God is with me to eat." When we fellowship with Him, we dine on His Words [Revelation 3:20, Matthew 4:4, Rev. 2:17] Some translators took the repetition of the name to imply that the prophet was weary, although there is no such mention in the text.


    biblelexicon[DOT]org/proverbs/30-1.h[-]t[-]m


    The words [which came to] Agur the son of Jakeh, the oracle [prophecy]. The man declares to Ithiel, to Ithiel and Ucal:

    “The Word which came to Agur [the prophet], saying; ‘God is with me; God is with me to eat.’
    Agur said “I am the most stupid man, and do not have the knowledge of the Holy!” But he knew he had a son :)


    The prophets humility before Almighty GOD:

    Proverbs 30:2-3 "Surely I am too stupid to be a man and have not the understanding of a man. Neither have I learned wisdom, Nor do I have the knowledge of the Holy One."
    Yet he knew Him! And He knew who the Son was!
    Prov. 30;
    4 Who has ascended into heaven and descended?
    Who has gathered the wind in His fists?
    Who has wrapped the waters in His garment?
    Who has established all the ends of the earth?
    What is His name or His son’s name? Surely you know!

    [And a word of caution:]
    5 Every word of God is tested;
    He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him.
    6 Do not add to His words
    Or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar.
    [And a prayer for protection:]
    8Keep deception and lies far from me,
    Give me neither poverty nor riches;
    Feed me with the food that is my portion,
    9That I not be full and deny You and say, “Who is the LORD?”
    Or that I not be in want and steal, And profane the name of my God.

    He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, to him I will give some of the hidden manna, and I will give him a white stone, and a new name written on the stone which no one knows but he who receives it.' Revelation 2:17

    Please give us the hidden manna from Thy Word, Lord, in Jesus' Name, amen
    May GOD Bless His Word and the reading of it, may our hearts take it in by His Grace, in Jesus' Name

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  12. Some learn and escape [2 Peter 1:4]

    Some are destroyed for rejecting knowledge (Hosea 4:6)

    Some would have been better never having known (2 Peter 2:20, Luke 12:47)

    1Now concerning food offered to idols: We know that we all possess knowledge. Knowledge puffs up, but love builds up. 2If anyone thinks he really knows something, he has not yet learned it as he ought to know it. 3But anyone who loves God is known by Him I Corinthians 8:1-3
    1 Corinthians 3:18

    Do not deceive yourselves. If any one of you thinks he is wise by the standards of this age, he should become a "fool" so that he may become wise.



    2 Corinthians 12:11

    I have made a fool of myself, but you drove me to it. I ought to have been commended by you, for I am not in the least inferior to the "super-apostles," even though I am nothing.


    And that’s the Apostle Paul!


    Galatians 6:3

    If anyone thinks he is something when he is nothing, he deceives himself.

    GOD IS NOT JUST GIVING A GEOGRAPHY LESSON.

    Ephraim – “one who is fruitful”

    Samaria – “one who watches and preserves”

    Son of Remaliah/ Remaliah’s Son –
    (from ‘Jah’ = GOD)
    “the Son whom GOD has crowned / bedecked”

    Head - Capital, Rank, Crown

    And the head of Ephraim is Samaria, and the head of Samaria is the son of Remaliah. If you are not firm in your faith, you will not be firm at all. If you will not believe you surely shall not last.
    Isaiah 7:9 http://biblelexicon.org/isaiah/7-9.htm


    What crowns [‘the one who is fruitful’], is [‘watching and preserving’], and at the Head of [‘the one watches and preserves’] is [*‘the Son whom God has crowned’]. If you do not stand by Faith, you will not stand at all. Isaiah 7:9

    * Psalm 2:6
    "But as for Me, I have installed My King Upon Zion, My holy mountain."


    Unless the Lord watches the city, the watchmen guard in vain Psalm 127:1b

    Christ is Head over us. [Ephesians 1:22]
    He keeps us. [I John 5:18, John 3:16, Hebrews 7:25]

    Cain was not his brother’s keeper, but JESUS is!
    Those who walk by faith are pleasing to GOD, watch and persevere/are preserved. [Heb. 10:38-39, Heb. 11:5, Mark 14:38]

    We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but HE that is Begotten of God preserveth him, and that wicked one toucheth him not. I John 5:18

    Jesus the Only Begotten Son - Jn. 3:16

    ‎38 but My righteous one shall live by faith,
    and if he shrinks back,
    My Soul has no pleasure in him.”

    39But we are not of those who shrink back and are destroyed, but of those who have faith and preserve their souls. Hebrews 10:38-39


    We stand BY FAITH - ISAIAH 7:9

    We stand BY GRACE – ROMANS 5:2

    Take heed if we think we stand, LEST WE FALL 1 Cor. 10:12
    Pride comes before the fall – PROVERBS 16:18 As we resist the Grace which mortifies and restrains [1 Cor. 5:10] GOD resists the proud but gives Grace top the humble James 4:6b

    We fall from the heights (REV. 2:5) if we fall from Grace, seeking to stand on our own two feet rather than be held up by GOD’s Grace. [Galatians 5:4]
    “HOLD THOU me UP, O GOD, THEN SHALL I BE SAFE!” Psalm 119:117a

    vs. 8 “for the head of Aram is Damascus,
    and the head of Damascus is only Rezin.”

    Head – rank/position/crown
    Aram - "exalted"
    Damascus - "silent is the sack-cloth weaver"
    Rezin - "favor"

    The position of the exalted [proud] one to take is as a silent sack-cloth weaver [in repentance.] And the position for the [repentant] silent sack-cloth weaver is only favor. Isaiah 7:8



    PROVERBS 29:23, MATTHEW 23:12, I PETER 5:5, JAMES 4:4-10, ISAIAH 66:1-2, I SAMUEL 2:7, ISAIAH 6:5-6, JOB 40:6-14

    JESUS is the ARM of the LORD; Revealed; Working Salvation, coming to Save; GOD reaching down in Christ [ISAIAH 63:5, 52:10, 51:5]

    namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation. 2 Cor. 5:19

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  13. RESOLUTIONS
    David said "I will" 10 times in Psalm 101, BEFORE he committed adultery and murder. JESUS fulfilled all righteousness, and David, although not perfect was a man after GOD's own heart. I am nothing but a wicked man that GOD saved for His Glory by His Grace, how much more then do i have need to watch and pray.

    Courageous was a fun movie, but we cannot keep one iota of a Commandment apart from His Grace, nor resist the least temptation apart from HIM

    [JOHN 15:5, 9, 2 Peter 2:9 and HE MEANS IT]

    which is why JESUS said "NEVER SWEAR, let your 'yes' mean yes, and your 'No,' mean no, anything above this comes from the Evil One." Making a bunch of 'I will' promises is setting one up for a fall like Peter when he said he would never forsake the LORD, even if all the others did, yet is was pride that came before the fall. LORD, restore our nation to the pleas for Sovereign Divine Mercy 'So help me GOD...and If the LORD wills...may GOD BLESS..." Take heed if you think you stand, lest you fall - 1 Cor. 10:12 ONLY GOD GRACE HOLDS us up and keeps us back from the pit

    Psalm 103:1-4

    1Bless the LORD, O my soul,
    And all that is within me, bless His Holy name.
    2Bless the LORD, O my soul,
    And forget none of His benefits;

    3Who pardons all your iniquities,
    Who heals all your diseases;

    4Who redeems your life from the pit,
    Who crowns you with lovingkindness and compassion;
    "I Will ... be the faithful husband...even though ALL the REST in this country fail... I Will..."



    29But Peter said to Him, “Even though all may fall away, yet I will not.” 30And Jesus said to him, “Truly I say to you, that this very night, before a rooster crows twice, you yourself will deny Me three times.” 31But Peter kept saying insistently, “Even if I have to die with You, I will not deny You!” And they all were saying the same thing also. Mark 14


    Satan said 'I will" 5 times in Isaiah 14. Pride comes before the fall, we fall when we think we stand. LEAN ON THE ARM OF THE LORD: DON’T FALL BY LEANING ON YOUR OWN. [JOB 40:14 & ISAIAH 52:10].

    We stand BY FAITH - ISAIAH 7:9

    We stand BY GRACE – ROMANS 5:2

    Take heed if we think we stand, LEST WE FALL
    1 Cor. 10:12

    Pride comes before the fall – PROVERBS 16:18
    As we resist the Grace which mortifies and restrains [1 Cor. 5:10] GOD resists the proud but gives Grace top the humble James 4:6b

    We fall from the heights (REV. 2:5) if we fall from Grace, seeking to stand on our own two feet rather than be held up by GOD’s Grace. [Galatians 5:4]
    “HOLD THOU me UP, O GOD, THEN SHALL I BE SAFE!” Psalm 119:117a

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  14. Oaths - Matthew 5:33-37

    33“Again, you have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘Do not break your oath, but keep the oaths you have made to the Lord.’ 34But I tell you, Do not swear at all: either by heaven, for it is God’s throne; 35or by the earth, for it is his footstool; or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the Great King. 36And do not swear by your head, for you cannot make even one hair white or black. 37Simply let your ‘Yes’ be ‘Yes,’ and your ‘No,’ ‘No’; anything beyond this comes from the evil one.

    But above all, my brethren, do not swear, either by heaven or by earth or with any other oath; but your yes is to be yes, and your no, no, so that you may not fall under judgment. JAMES 5:12

    ‎9 Hast thou an arm like God? or canst thou thunder with a voice like His?

    10 Deck thyself now with majesty and excellency; and array thyself with glory and beauty.

    11 Cast abroad the rage of thy wrath: and behold every one that is proud, and abase him.

    12 Look on every one that is proud, and bring him low; and tread down the wicked in their place.

    13 Hide them in the dust together; and bind their faces in secret.

    14 Then will I also confess unto thee that thine own right hand can save thee. Job 40:9-14


    Isaiah 52:10

    The LORD will lay bare His Holy Arm in the sight of all the nations, and all the ends of the earth will see the salvation of our God.

    JESUS is the ARM of the LORD

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  15. Revelation 14:19-20 is speaking about the JEWS that WILL ask Almighty God for forgiveness during the Great Tribulation - without even the Holy Spirit here on Earth.

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